Oops... now is that your fault, Spanky, or mine?! ROFL
And stay the hell away from gin... BLECH, that stuff is vile. I'd never had a hangover in my life until I started drinking that stuff. (It didn't last long, I assure you. The drinking gin phase, I mean! ;))
I'm learning a lot of things on Vatican city. It's like a tax haven: they have a couple of big shops for general goods distribution where lots of things are cheaper and many doctors (as the priests there are at the end of their career so they're quite old). I'm also told that no one outside knows whatever happens there unless it's not compromising. As circulation of information is concerned, they are like a small China :D And omertà reigns supreme. No surprise the conclave is held in total secrecy.
No, I'm so sure they sell condoms. Prohibiting them for the rest of humanity otherwise they don't make kids for them to enslave, but keeping condoms for themselves.
I would kill to gather proofs that condoms are sold inside Vatican city. And I'm looking forward for an AIDS epidemy to spread there. I'm sure it will happen sooner or later.
LOL they don't agree with your "salvation lies in pussy" theology. But it's an interesting concept... perhaps I could show that Protestants embrace it. Oh well, they allow priests to get married, in fact.
For them it's more "salvation lies in chaste, undemanding pussy" - hence the Ratzinger-revived cult of the Virgin Mary.
A bomb! I want an H-Bomb right over that place. I don't care about the artwork. Those artists should have never accepted dirty money from them.
Well, that concept of woman isn't in any way removed from the Religious Right's ideal of "keep 'em barefoot & pregnant in the kitchen" in the southern US - and they're supposed to be Protestants.
What truly depresses me is the number of women who are brainwashed enough to want nothing else - and be strident about it.
And don't even get me started about the number of people - including women - who are converting to Islam because it offers them "security"... so does a federal Supermax penitentiary.
What truly depresses me is the number of women who are brainwashed enough to want nothing else - and be strident about it It's even more depressing that the vast majority of men think women are privileged because they can be dependent on someone else and freedom-deprived like that. We've been discriminated against mainly because we've been envied :P
That is, get the degree, because if your husband dies, you can support your family. I remember thinking, even tho' I was about 16: This will not apply to me. I'm doing this for me.
No, not all men are like that, I can guarantee. Bumsby happily dated a rare exception for 3 years. And a few of my female friends are dating other rarities. :D
BUT YES, most are. The vast majority, sadly :P
(Mary, WHO in the world told you that?!?! I thought you were raised in a sensible place? I know it's none of my business but I want to get them and beat them right now. No one in my family presented me and my sister with marriage as the only option. We were always told that we had to "find our way" - which was hard at times, but still better than the opposite)
I am waiting the washing machine to finish. In the meantime I transferred my iTunes library on another Hard Disk and I have to manually update 7,500 songs :P
I guess there's a way to cut all this work but by the time I'm not figuring out *shrug*
And of course I'm falling asleep on the keyboard...
Oh, I think many people said it, but the one I vividly remember saying it was my father. (No, bumsby, you can't beat him up.)
That's the way things were, then. Every woman who was getting an engineering degree at that time was suspect: we were supposedly all just trying to find an engineering husband. They called it the Mrs. degree. (And I don't think that was a new idea.)
Still, among my co-workers, there are many who believe that female professors are taking a good living away from some man who has a family to support.
"Still, among my co-workers, there are many who believe that female professors are taking a good living away from some man who has a family to support."
God, yes - I heard this kind of bullshit from my father as a kid, as a justification for why women should be paid less than men / men should get preferential treatment in hiring, promotions, etc. And it's not that my dad is an idiot, or a bad guy - he's just a product of his generation and that's the way they thought. He genuinely believed that's the way it should be BECAUSE he believed, also, that men should be out there earning enough to support & provide for their families. Of course, with the breakdown of the nuclear family that all becomes a little irrelevant, and like most people he still clings to the ideas he grew up with. And no-one had ever challenged him on it... until me. *smirk*
One day we were talking on the phone and he expressed... surprise... that his bank manager was a woman. Ooooohhhh... I lit into him & gave him hell, pointed out that it was attitudes like that that made my life so damn hard in Corporate America, pointed out that his granddaughters are all going to have to deal with the same crap because guys like him are passing their attitudes down to their sons & grandsons....
Poor dad. I think he was genuinely taken aback; he'd never been made to see that perspective before, and I think I really gave him something to think about. Underneath it all, he's the sort of guy who'd be just delighted if his daughter / granddaughter was the best or brightest, or showed everybody else up by doing things better or making the most reliable, sensible decisions. It's always been that way.
So if my dad, who's one of the good guys, is as messed up & conflicted as that - no frickin' wonder our society is as jacked up as it is! (And yes, I realize that we are fortunate to be in the US/UK/Europe, etc. Barbie, just ignore us, or better yet - chime in and tell us how it is in India - congrats, BTW, on your first female president, that's frickin' awesome!!)
Don't worry we don't have a word limit here. Uhm... looks like my family is good at something! LOL. Seriously, there was never such talk at home. I wonder if it was my famous grandmother's influence? (The one G reminds me of) Her daughter (my mother) has a much softer character but is very sensitive to gender issues. And well, my father is a little lamb.
Ok Mary, I won't beat him up, if you ask me to. I'm sure that's the only thing he deserves a beating up for, so I can spare him. ;) (But I hope you'll admit he was wrong in believing that)
About Catholics not following the precepts, or not doing what they should do, that's Catholic religion central message: the acceptance (and fueling) of the gap between theory and practice. Between ideology and reality. I don't like it.
It's like telling men: you can think, but you'll never realize what you think/dream of, so you might as well not think and behave like an animal (all the debate on the "natural" aspects of life). Hence the discouraging of education, human emancipation, and ultimately rationality.
Protestants, on the other hand, closed the gap between theory and practice. They told men it was useful to think, so you could improve your life and wellbeing. Rationality is good: also because (unlike chaos and un-self-disciplined behavior) it can help men self-organize and spare them from being subjects to authority (something which went greatly against the interests of the CC)
Mary, are you out to your father? Again, none of my business but I'm curious to know what the reaction of a father entertaining those thoughts would be when finding out his daughter is gay. Because, sometimes people have ideas but they tend to be more elastic (word, please?!) when things happen to people who are close to them.
What I don't like about the "Catholic way" of acceptance is that they think you are unlucky not to be like them. (I don't know "sfigato" in English, which has a discriminative acception) But since they are good, they accept you.
I prefer not to be accepted by someone arguing for their preference, instead of being accepted by someone else who has a "God-given", undebatable preference he can't support and just assumes to be right.
Catholics are like "this is the absolute, undebatable truth. But we will live if you don't conform to it". I think this doesn't make any sense. I prefer a "this is my opinion, and I will support/argue it in this and that way. I might change it, but only if you are good at defending/supporting/arguing yours" approach.
Squeaky, you just hit the nail on the head for me with one of your comments.
When I was in college in England, my best friend was a Canadian girl whose family lived in Rome. The whole family was very Christian; of course, I had decided I was an atheist at the age of twelve.
For the first few years it didn't seem to matter - we were friends, and I just moderated some of my comments around my friend out of respect for her (sincere) beliefs. No problems, we had a lot of fun and grew up a bit, which is what college is all about.
Gradually over the years she started spending more & more time with the "born again" types at college, some of whom just annoyed the tits off of me (to be blunt). Still not too much of a problem; I hung out with her when she wasn't with them.
But I remember once, when a bunch of us were sharing a house together, a postcard arrived for my friend. Now, I'm not in the habit of reading other people's mail, but you have to look at a postcard to see who it's for. And when I turned the card over, I was struck by how the sender had managed to cram SO much writing onto one tiny little postcard - I swear, you've never seen such small writing. In the course of marvelling over the microscopic writing, I couldn't help but see some of the words... it was a bit like watching a train wreck - you know, where you can't tear your eyes away? I didn't read the whole thing, but the one or two sentences I did see are something I'll never forget.
The person who sent the card was a a friend of my friend's, from Rome. One of the Christian clique back home, I guess. And they were expounding in great detail about how they felt so very sorry for the poor, ignorant, stupid unbelievers... I can't remember the exact words, I only remember the overwhelming sense of superiority and sheer condescension. It reminded me very much of the attitude of the "born agains" that pissed me off so much.
I never told my friend about it, and in the last year or two of college we drifted apart a fair bit. I wrote to her the summer after we left college, but I never got a reply and we've never communicated since. Sad.
So it's interesting, Squeaky, to hear you say that about what you call the "Catholic way" but I don't think it's limited to Catholics. Far from it.
Having said the above, I guess the "holier than thou" thing is still preferable to the "you don't share our beliefs so we're going to stone you / burn you at the stake / throw acid all over you / declare fatwa on you / lobby for you and you kind to be thrown in prison for the rest of your miserable lives" option.
Lots of people need to put others down to feel good about themselves.
Religion is just one way to do it, but it's a socially-accepted means of doing it.
When I took Cathecism...Catechism? OK, the spell thingie isn't red-lining that one... anyway, one of my teachers had that smugness, and I really disliked it.
I just read this... maybe there's a flaw in the "recent comments" widget as I never saw it from there. Anyway.
I agree that diminishing other people sometimes it's a way of "cheering oneself up", so to speak. Perhaps often, but maybe not all the time.
In general, I would tend to believe that trusting other people and being open depends on two factors: whether those people are reliable and worth being trusted (reputation, etc) and the overall level of social/individual development. Or progress, evolution, call it what you will. I think a social group (be it a bunch of friends, a nation, or the world) that is able to make the most of its components' differences has something going on. (And I know you will boo me, but therein lies the real strength, or comparative advantage, of the US with respect to most countries IMHO)
That's also why I like TLW: because they're so close, yet so different. And the Beatles. And my friends here in Rome.
However, sometimes this "appreciation for difference" tends to be abused, when it's considered mandatory instead of something hard which needs to be cautiously worked on. Like when, for some inscrutable reason, we're supposed to consider Iran and Indonesia "good countries", "like us". *shrug*
And of course I'm not talking in absolute terms, so I'm sure you'll be able to counterargue on a general basis. I'm not so sure you can do that comparatively...
the way I see it, it's the worst country in the world, except for all the others ;)
"NOOO! It's giving people something to eat and the freedom of speech and belief! (Historically)"
Freedom of speech... yes, if you're prepared to die for it. "I have a dream..." etc. etc.
Freedom of belief... tell that to the Native Americans. After being lied to, cheated, massacred and vilified, murdered in the USA's first instance of biowarfare, and displaced from their homes, their children were taken from them and forcibly taught the white man's ways - language, history and religious beliefs, all at the expense of their own rich and vibrant cultures.
One nation, under (the White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant) God, with liberty and justice for all (who are like us).
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all MEN are created equal (screw you if you're a woman - literally) and are possessed of certain inalienable rights; that among these rights are life (unless you were here before us), liberty (unless you were stolen from your home and sold into slavery when you reached the New World - if you survived the journey), and the pursuit of happiness. (But be careful if your idea of happiness doesn't match everyone else's. Then you might get beaten to death in the streets with a baseball bat.)
Bums, I'm sorry to sound like I'm so down on you, and believe it or not I think we feel the same way about the concepts and principles. It's just that you have such an impossibly idealized view of the US... maybe I'm trying to soften the inevitable blow that's lurking in the future, waiting for you if you live here long enough.
*shrug* Maybe we'll have some interesting discussions. LOL, or maybe we'll just agree never to talk about this kind of thing, ever!
Freedom of speech... yes, if you're prepared to die for it. But I won't go against the American establishment. That's why I travel all the way there, so I can be there. It must mean I like it there... unless there's something you all don't know. And there isn't. I don't understand going against some country's establishment. If I did, I'd become a brigatist or an anarchist in Italy. But instead I choose to leave the country (ideally and hopefully). So I'm not going to go against some other country's establishment as it wouldn't make sense leaving for that country in the first place. Is that clear?
Freedom of belief... tell that to the Native Americans Right. So I have to expect to be treated like a Native American? I swear I have no intention of living like them and do what they did. So I should be safe.
One nation, under (the White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant) God That's my God, too, so it should be bearable. If it's not someone's, they can leave. Oh, I forgot, some people are lazy bums... ;) I mean, I don't just criticise the oppressing, uncivilized, poverty and ignorance-fueling Catholic God. I also move my arse in order to escape from it.
What was the other argument, women's emancipation? In 1776? ROFLMAO. We still had witches stakes smoking here in Inquisition-ruled European South. And, lo and behold, we still have something wrong in the same part of Europe: the lowest women's activity and job participation rate. Unlike Northern Europe and - guess who - the US.
I don't know if I have an idealized view of the US... but for sure I compare and evaluate FACTS I'm not blind nor deaf to.
Meh. Well, as I told her, if she truly doesn't care about the difference between ideals vs reality, so long as she gets what she's looking for, then she truly does have the quintessential American attitudde and will thrive here!
Sheesh... they talk about the whole men/Mars/women/Venus thang; maybe Sapphistos are from Jupiter and Bumsqueaks are from *tape* and *major self restraint here* ummm, Neptune?!
Well, Mary - I know it's cold comfort, but be thankful that you're swamped because you've been recognized for your abilities.
There's nothing worse than being stuck in a grind, having been allowed to show some small measure of your skill set/impress the hell out of people, only to be shut down again because your insecure, incompetent boss is a jealous control freak.
Can't I be NUTS and a freak like the average American? ;) After all you don't know me and I may find out you have the same character I hate in Italians; so that I wouldn't be surprised by some of your comments. I say it again: until you spend either your twenties or the first part of your working life in a Medieval country, I doubt you'll understand what I say. I know, I should shut up more often, but in this case I don't because I'm not comfortable with the global hypocrisy currently so fashionable of saying bad things about America while taking advantage of what she does (which is coming from some Americans in the first place, but not only). It reminds me of the radical chics who were against capitalism but sported big cars and hi-tech devices. :P
And I'm all for agreeing to disagree at some point, instead of risking that some of you interpret what I say as personal attacks :P (sapph please, not again... )
In other news, I've never met anyone who likes TLW for the same reasons that I do, so I'd be surprised if Mary's horrible feeling made sense. So Mary if you please / have time / have nothing better to do, explain yourself. Otherwise I'm going to have to disagree right away.
Btw I feel a bit insulted by some of your comments (about how retarded I am that I can't tell reality from fantasy and my being naive). You probably feel insulted by some of my comments as well so perhaps this is a good indication we should not keep discussing the subject. Mind you, I don't mind being insulted, I just wish the discussion could be a little more substantial. But it often happens in politics: people are so convinced that they're right and there's so many arguments to support both theses, that they end up fighting.
(Btw: TLW is a good example of radical-chic, anti-American in words but pro-American in substance, thinking; so yes, in this sense that's what I expect to find in LA)
I apologize for any perceived insult - that wasn't the intent. (And I do mind such things.)
But I actually said you apparently didn't *care* about the difference between the ideals and the reality of America, not that you couldn't tell the difference. I admit, it took me a while to realize that, as you do tend to wax poetic about your favorite country. But I get it (that's why I say you'll do just fine over here). And I didn't say you were naive. (Annoying as hell, maybe, but not naive... ;) Kidding! Mostly.)
I'm interested to know what you would consider a more substantial discussion.
I am interested to continue this discussion if you insist, but I really need to go to sleep now if I want to stay alive after my first day at the gym in 8 months (I work early tomorrow).
Just a reminder now: when you say that is my "ideal" vision of America, don't forget that other than reading as many books about America as I've done about Europe (something which many anti-American Americans lack: a good knowledge of Europe either because they haven't lived there or because they haven't studied about it):
I've worked in the country goddamn it.
You made it sound as I'm a fascinated tourist, but I've been paid a discreet sum of money by an American boss to put up with his American mind. It wasn't even Corporate America formally, but is was so much more American than "Corporate Italy" already.
And now excuse me while I try to stay alive... g'night :P ;)
(Ok one very last thing about TLW and what I expect to find in LA) I've seen on the US official statistics website that a ridiculous amount of WeHo residents are born abroad. I don't remember exactly - perhaps 40 % - but I do remember it was ridiculous compared to all the others I've seen there.
So... let's just say, I do expect to find many people born abroad in WeHo ;)
(And I let you do the connection with TLW... let's see if you can read my mind ;) Homework: reading Bumsby's mind... LOL)
I actually have better things to do, and no time, so I'll be interested in hearing about your thoughts on Los Angeles once you've experienced it.
But I do think if you're allowed to yank chains--and you do yank chains-- I hope you let us yank back. But please accept my apology if you felt my comment was condescending.
A reminder from me, too: don't forget I spent the first half of my life in Europe, and I've earned money on both sides of the Atlantic. And don't give me that crap about Britain not being part of Europe. ;)
(Cue Spanky saying "Hell no! Britain isn't part of Europe!!" LOL)
And don't give me that crap about Britain not being part of Europe I'm sure you can consider it part of Europe for some reason, but what I like about the US applies to a large extent to the UK as well. So yeah, I see this big difference in "relevant" matters between the two sides of the... channel as well.
Hi there, this is not me, this is Amélie Mauresmo! LOL I put her photo in here because this blog is mainly devoted to online storage of the stuff I find about her: news, videos, reports, articles, photos, etc. Oh, and btw, I'm the proud founder of World MomOrganization (WMO) ;)
Hope ya have fun in here, cheers!
Official Nipple Watchers (ONW): SlipknotSian, tRUstus, timafi, veronika, Ukey, Hugo87
Head of Scrunchy Watching Department (HSWD): suzie
Official Scrunchy Watcher (OSW): SlipknotSian
Official Stalker Supreme + Official Filiol-Bimes conspiracy fabulist Emeritus: Bumsby
Official Initiator of General Nastiness + Amélie's Official Sweat Wiper: SpankMe
Official Abdominals Watcher (OAbW): forever_rafter
Official Giver of Hugs and Kisses (OGHK)+ Official Admirer of the World's Greatest Ass (OAWGA) + Official Momo Bouncing Up and Down Waiting for Play to Resume Spectator (OMBUDWPRS) + Official Observer of Momo's Very Sexy Walk (OOMVSW) : Sapphisto
Official Bagel Maker + Official Thigh & Shoulder Massager: skiingblueangel8
Official Clever and Witty Cheering Thread Titles Creator: Linnie
Official Bra & Sports Bra Fitter: SlipknotSian
Special Double-Duty Feasibility Inspectors: Gerri, ichnussa
Cute Tight Little Shorts Campaigner: Gerri
Official Ass Watchers (OAW): SlipknotSian, veronika, Hugo87
Official Pre- & Post-Match Arm Massager: Barbarela
Official Alcohol-Abuse Watchers: Jenny C. Fan, timafi
Official Angelic Face Admirer: Camila
Official Italian Press Observer probably bored to death: ichnussa
Official Momoflag Designer + Official Weight Watcher: Hollywood14
Official Momo-poll Maelstrom: spinpup
Official Admirer of Amazing Stolen Profile Photographs of the French Prodigy (OAASPPFP): Nicjac
Official Supplier of Amelie's Pictures During Off Season (OSAPDOS): BARBIE
Official MomoFistPump Watcher (OMFPW): GS_28
Official Glittering and Shining Amélie's Wallpaper or Whateva Maker: Nadl
Official Utterly Useless Information Finder (OUUIF): KJ2007
***********************
SOPHIA FAN CLUB (SFC) CHART:
Honorary President for having had the original idea: Sapphisto
Official Dog Walkers: Barbarela, Hollywood14, veronika
Official Dog Walker in charge of Stroking: forever_rafter
Official Mediator in charge of Human-to-Animal Communication: SpankMe
86 comments:
perfume ? really well not all drinks are good
is this mixed with campari?
i hate campari, it's the most horrible alcohol i've drunken so far
Yep. I'm not a big fan of it either, but I still think adding gin to it makes it far worse. Yikes :P
I think I drank too much of it last night! I don't feel good at all today. Never ever again. Water and diet coke from now on. (j/k)
Spoken like a true Irishman.. :D
I don't understand Irish jokes... the interpreter is afk atm (away from keyboard at the moment) so you'll have to wait.
Sapph I hope you're recovering well! (Apparently she has slight flu :( *hug* )
Drunken Irishmen are always saying they are going to give up the alcohol :D
Ah, ok. As opposed to the Brits who don't even have the intention...
The brits don't have a drink problem...just damaged livers :D
And i am NOT donating my liver to those morons when I die. It's their own fault if they have poisoned themselves on Friday night week in week out :P
(there is a shortage of organ donors in the UK)
why don't you start using rabbits... :P
I'm going to sleep... I need it. Why is it I'm constantly yawning in life? I always need sleep... :(
So g'night everybod :D *wave*
"Spoken like a true Irishman.. :D"
Oops... now is that your fault, Spanky, or mine?! ROFL
And stay the hell away from gin... BLECH, that stuff is vile. I'd never had a hangover in my life until I started drinking that stuff. (It didn't last long, I assure you. The drinking gin phase, I mean! ;))
you've never had a hangover??!! you drink too less then..
i can have a hangover from everything if i drink enough from it (ok but i drink really much generally)
Noooo, go back & read my comment again, young one. ;) LOL.
And go easy on the sauce - you'll need that liver for a few years, yet.
oh lol :p
and plz dont call me young one, i'm really annoyed by that i'm not that young and it's not my fault that u're all oldies *rolleyes*
*cackles madly*
But it's the privilege of old age - we're allowed to piss off the youngsters!! LMAO
(Hey, we need something to make up for the aching backs and creaking joints, ok?!)
j/k, Nadl, I have a tendency to tease... but no offense intended.
i love to tease ppl aswell ;)
but i cant do nothin against my fuckin age *haha*
atleast i turn 17 in 1 month, that sounds more mature than 16 :p
Nadl you are not that young im gonna be 20 on the 29th btw but hey live out your teen years and enjoy them all the last bit of mine sucked good luck .
BTW, Squeaky - have you actually drunk perfume???!!!
*gurk*
Well, not "proper" perfume, but I guess the Negroni comes close.
Have you?
(And what are you doing up at this hour?)
LOL, no, perfume isn't my thing.
Although really good, really fresh cantaloupe has a perfumey taste, almost, doesn't it? In the very best sense - yum.
And I'm up in the middle of the night cos I slept earlier, and my head hurts and my sinuses are plugged.
:(
Awww *hugs head and sinuses*
Why don't you try inhaling some Negroni... I'm sure its fierceness will scare the plugging agents away :D
LOL, it's an industrial-strength solvent, huh?
Probably... I'm sure it removes stains and everything...
It cannot remove the eternal stain of sin of the cc :D
I'm learning a lot of things on Vatican city. It's like a tax haven: they have a couple of big shops for general goods distribution where lots of things are cheaper and many doctors (as the priests there are at the end of their career so they're quite old).
I'm also told that no one outside knows whatever happens there unless it's not compromising. As circulation of information is concerned, they are like a small China :D And omertà reigns supreme.
No surprise the conclave is held in total secrecy.
(so how am I supposed to know whether they sell condoms in those shops?)
No, I'm so sure they sell condoms. Prohibiting them for the rest of humanity otherwise they don't make kids for them to enslave, but keeping condoms for themselves.
I would kill to gather proofs that condoms are sold inside Vatican city. And I'm looking forward for an AIDS epidemy to spread there. I'm sure it will happen sooner or later.
And if I may mix metaphors here, they're all barking up the wrong tree anyway, since we all know that In Pussy Shalt Thou Find Salvation.
*tape*
OK, I'll stop.
You wouldn't wish that on anyone - not even them.
And even if it did happen, it's not like the outside world would ever be allowed to know of it.
I am evil enough..to wish it on some of them..such as the L.A. scum ;P
They'd all be sent to "Craggy Island" :D (Father Ted, remember that Sapph? :D )
LOL they don't agree with your "salvation lies in pussy" theology. But it's an interesting concept... perhaps I could show that Protestants embrace it. Oh well, they allow priests to get married, in fact.
For them it's more "salvation lies in chaste, undemanding pussy" - hence the Ratzinger-revived cult of the Virgin Mary.
A bomb! I want an H-Bomb right over that place. I don't care about the artwork. Those artists should have never accepted dirty money from them.
No, that doesn't ring a bell, Spanky. But I'd be quick, clinical (and surgically! pun intended) precise about it.
Cut off their rubber parts, and let 'em bleed to death.
No need to even waste bullets on them, that way.
LOL: "Halal priests" *tape* people will think we're a Muslim sect *eek*
Well, that concept of woman isn't in any way removed from the Religious Right's ideal of "keep 'em barefoot & pregnant in the kitchen" in the southern US - and they're supposed to be Protestants.
What truly depresses me is the number of women who are brainwashed enough to want nothing else - and be strident about it.
And don't even get me started about the number of people - including women - who are converting to Islam because it offers them "security"... so does a federal Supermax penitentiary.
Gah.
sapph wrote What truly depresses me is the number of women who are brainwashed enough to want nothing else - and be strident about it.
oh yeh *sigh* i cant imagine a life in the kitchen and only for my kids/family whateva..
What truly depresses me is the number of women who are brainwashed enough to want nothing else - and be strident about it
It's even more depressing that the vast majority of men think women are privileged because they can be dependent on someone else and freedom-deprived like that.
We've been discriminated against mainly because we've been envied :P
Well, it's not our fault if guys are stupid....
*tape*
but what me really shocks is when a girl says "we cant do nothin against it, the world is ruled by men" *smash*
my lil sister (ok she's really stupid in this case) said this last week and i was like "omg how can u think like that"
and i think she's not the only woman who thinks that way *sad & stupid*
Before I went to undergraduate university to get my degree, I was basically told, "It's a good thing to do in case your husband dies."
That is, get the degree, because if your husband dies, you can support your family. I remember thinking, even tho' I was about 16: This will not apply to me. I'm doing this for me.
LMAO, Mary... oh, god, I so know what you mean.
All the stories / fantasies about a women-only society are pure escapism, I'll grant you - but sometimes I do find myself wishing, just a little bit.
Let's hear it for parthenogenesis.
No, not all men are like that, I can guarantee. Bumsby happily dated a rare exception for 3 years. And a few of my female friends are dating other rarities. :D
BUT YES, most are. The vast majority, sadly :P
(Mary, WHO in the world told you that?!?! I thought you were raised in a sensible place? I know it's none of my business but I want to get them and beat them right now. No one in my family presented me and my sister with marriage as the only option. We were always told that we had to "find our way" - which was hard at times, but still better than the opposite)
Yes, and in terrible, awful, backward Italy, too!!
*drip of sarcasm*
*tape*
;)
(Damn, I hate this timezone difference thingy. Wake up! Y'all are dozing off and I demand to be entertained!! ROFL)
I am waiting the washing machine to finish. In the meantime I transferred my iTunes library on another Hard Disk and I have to manually update 7,500 songs :P
I guess there's a way to cut all this work but by the time I'm not figuring out *shrug*
And of course I'm falling asleep on the keyboard...
@mary's comment
wow that's really hard that someone told you so
i mean i dont go 13 years to school and study my ass off that i sit at home then (in my case)
@sapph
i'm here :D
Aw, Nadl, I'm sorry - I gave up and went to do other stuff.
Hope you found someone else to hang out with!
lol no problem ;)
but i'm usually around very late (vacation *woohoo* )
hey ladies im having a very boring day
Oh, I think many people said it, but the one I vividly remember saying it was my father. (No, bumsby, you can't beat him up.)
That's the way things were, then. Every woman who was getting an engineering degree at that time was suspect: we were supposedly all just trying to find an engineering husband. They called it the Mrs. degree. (And I don't think that was a new idea.)
Still, among my co-workers, there are many who believe that female professors are taking a good living away from some man who has a family to support.
"Still, among my co-workers, there are many who believe that female professors are taking a good living away from some man who has a family to support."
God, yes - I heard this kind of bullshit from my father as a kid, as a justification for why women should be paid less than men / men should get preferential treatment in hiring, promotions, etc. And it's not that my dad is an idiot, or a bad guy - he's just a product of his generation and that's the way they thought. He genuinely believed that's the way it should be BECAUSE he believed, also, that men should be out there earning enough to support & provide for their families. Of course, with the breakdown of the nuclear family that all becomes a little irrelevant, and like most people he still clings to the ideas he grew up with. And no-one had ever challenged him on it... until me. *smirk*
One day we were talking on the phone and he expressed... surprise... that his bank manager was a woman. Ooooohhhh... I lit into him & gave him hell, pointed out that it was attitudes like that that made my life so damn hard in Corporate America, pointed out that his granddaughters are all going to have to deal with the same crap because guys like him are passing their attitudes down to their sons & grandsons....
Poor dad. I think he was genuinely taken aback; he'd never been made to see that perspective before, and I think I really gave him something to think about. Underneath it all, he's the sort of guy who'd be just delighted if his daughter / granddaughter was the best or brightest, or showed everybody else up by doing things better or making the most reliable, sensible decisions. It's always been that way.
So if my dad, who's one of the good guys, is as messed up & conflicted as that - no frickin' wonder our society is as jacked up as it is! (And yes, I realize that we are fortunate to be in the US/UK/Europe, etc. Barbie, just ignore us, or better yet - chime in and tell us how it is in India - congrats, BTW, on your first female president, that's frickin' awesome!!)
(Apologies for the mini-essay! LOL)
Don't worry we don't have a word limit here.
Uhm... looks like my family is good at something! LOL. Seriously, there was never such talk at home. I wonder if it was my famous grandmother's influence? (The one G reminds me of)
Her daughter (my mother) has a much softer character but is very sensitive to gender issues. And well, my father is a little lamb.
Ok Mary, I won't beat him up, if you ask me to. I'm sure that's the only thing he deserves a beating up for, so I can spare him. ;) (But I hope you'll admit he was wrong in believing that)
About Catholics not following the precepts, or not doing what they should do, that's Catholic religion central message: the acceptance (and fueling) of the gap between theory and practice. Between ideology and reality. I don't like it.
It's like telling men: you can think, but you'll never realize what you think/dream of, so you might as well not think and behave like an animal (all the debate on the "natural" aspects of life). Hence the discouraging of education, human emancipation, and ultimately rationality.
Protestants, on the other hand, closed the gap between theory and practice. They told men it was useful to think, so you could improve your life and wellbeing. Rationality is good: also because (unlike chaos and un-self-disciplined behavior) it can help men self-organize and spare them from being subjects to authority (something which went greatly against the interests of the CC)
maybe its good that my parents dont give a shit about me (us) because i can do whateva i want :p
Mary, are you out to your father? Again, none of my business but I'm curious to know what the reaction of a father entertaining those thoughts would be when finding out his daughter is gay.
Because, sometimes people have ideas but they tend to be more elastic (word, please?!) when things happen to people who are close to them.
Yes, in that strange Catholic way. And apparently, I'm still his favorite.
But you should realize that I'm old enough that some of these things of which I speak happened nearly 30 years ago.
What I don't like about the "Catholic way" of acceptance is that they think you are unlucky not to be like them. (I don't know "sfigato" in English, which has a discriminative acception) But since they are good, they accept you.
I prefer not to be accepted by someone arguing for their preference, instead of being accepted by someone else who has a "God-given", undebatable preference he can't support and just assumes to be right.
Catholics are like "this is the absolute, undebatable truth. But we will live if you don't conform to it". I think this doesn't make any sense. I prefer a "this is my opinion, and I will support/argue it in this and that way. I might change it, but only if you are good at defending/supporting/arguing yours" approach.
Squeaky, you just hit the nail on the head for me with one of your comments.
When I was in college in England, my best friend was a Canadian girl whose family lived in Rome. The whole family was very Christian; of course, I had decided I was an atheist at the age of twelve.
For the first few years it didn't seem to matter - we were friends, and I just moderated some of my comments around my friend out of respect for her (sincere) beliefs. No problems, we had a lot of fun and grew up a bit, which is what college is all about.
Gradually over the years she started spending more & more time with the "born again" types at college, some of whom just annoyed the tits off of me (to be blunt). Still not too much of a problem; I hung out with her when she wasn't with them.
But I remember once, when a bunch of us were sharing a house together, a postcard arrived for my friend. Now, I'm not in the habit of reading other people's mail, but you have to look at a postcard to see who it's for. And when I turned the card over, I was struck by how the sender had managed to cram SO much writing onto one tiny little postcard - I swear, you've never seen such small writing. In the course of marvelling over the microscopic writing, I couldn't help but see some of the words... it was a bit like watching a train wreck - you know, where you can't tear your eyes away? I didn't read the whole thing, but the one or two sentences I did see are something I'll never forget.
The person who sent the card was a a friend of my friend's, from Rome. One of the Christian clique back home, I guess. And they were expounding in great detail about how they felt so very sorry for the poor, ignorant, stupid unbelievers... I can't remember the exact words, I only remember the overwhelming sense of superiority and sheer condescension. It reminded me very much of the attitude of the "born agains" that pissed me off so much.
I never told my friend about it, and in the last year or two of college we drifted apart a fair bit. I wrote to her the summer after we left college, but I never got a reply and we've never communicated since. Sad.
So it's interesting, Squeaky, to hear you say that about what you call the "Catholic way" but I don't think it's limited to Catholics. Far from it.
Having said the above, I guess the "holier than thou" thing is still preferable to the "you don't share our beliefs so we're going to stone you / burn you at the stake / throw acid all over you / declare fatwa on you / lobby for you and you kind to be thrown in prison for the rest of your miserable lives" option.
But remember - god is love.
This is why I'm not big on religion.
Lots of people need to put others down to feel good about themselves.
Religion is just one way to do it, but it's a socially-accepted means of doing it.
When I took Cathecism...Catechism? OK, the spell thingie isn't red-lining that one... anyway, one of my teachers had that smugness, and I really disliked it.
I just read this... maybe there's a flaw in the "recent comments" widget as I never saw it from there. Anyway.
I agree that diminishing other people sometimes it's a way of "cheering oneself up", so to speak. Perhaps often, but maybe not all the time.
In general, I would tend to believe that trusting other people and being open depends on two factors: whether those people are reliable and worth being trusted (reputation, etc) and the overall level of social/individual development. Or progress, evolution, call it what you will. I think a social group (be it a bunch of friends, a nation, or the world) that is able to make the most of its components' differences has something going on. (And I know you will boo me, but therein lies the real strength, or comparative advantage, of the US with respect to most countries IMHO)
That's also why I like TLW: because they're so close, yet so different. And the Beatles. And my friends here in Rome.
However, sometimes this "appreciation for difference" tends to be abused, when it's considered mandatory instead of something hard which needs to be cautiously worked on. Like when, for some inscrutable reason, we're supposed to consider Iran and Indonesia "good countries", "like us". *shrug*
(so there it is, my sermon for the day... :P)
Who were you replying to - Mary or me?
And America may give the impression of appreciating diversity, but I promise you, it's mostly lipservice.
NOOO! It's giving people something to eat and the freedom of speech and belief! (Historically)
Please, don't get me started, I've been reading the history of Dedham, Massachusetts, for part of the day.
Hundreds of millions of immigrants can't be wrong.
I was replying to both.
And of course I'm not talking in absolute terms, so I'm sure you'll be able to counterargue on a general basis. I'm not so sure you can do that comparatively...
the way I see it, it's the worst country in the world, except for all the others ;)
Quit pretending to be Winston. ;)
Hmmm.
"NOOO! It's giving people something to eat and the freedom of speech and belief! (Historically)"
Freedom of speech... yes, if you're prepared to die for it. "I have a dream..." etc. etc.
Freedom of belief... tell that to the Native Americans. After being lied to, cheated, massacred and vilified, murdered in the USA's first instance of biowarfare, and displaced from their homes, their children were taken from them and forcibly taught the white man's ways - language, history and religious beliefs, all at the expense of their own rich and vibrant cultures.
One nation, under (the White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant) God, with liberty and justice for all (who are like us).
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all MEN are created equal (screw you if you're a woman - literally) and are possessed of certain inalienable rights; that among these rights are life (unless you were here before us), liberty (unless you were stolen from your home and sold into slavery when you reached the New World - if you survived the journey), and the pursuit of happiness. (But be careful if your idea of happiness doesn't match everyone else's. Then you might get beaten to death in the streets with a baseball bat.)
Bums, I'm sorry to sound like I'm so down on you, and believe it or not I think we feel the same way about the concepts and principles. It's just that you have such an impossibly idealized view of the US... maybe I'm trying to soften the inevitable blow that's lurking in the future, waiting for you if you live here long enough.
*shrug* Maybe we'll have some interesting discussions. LOL, or maybe we'll just agree never to talk about this kind of thing, ever!
LMAO
Freedom of speech... yes, if you're prepared to die for it.
But I won't go against the American establishment. That's why I travel all the way there, so I can be there. It must mean I like it there... unless there's something you all don't know. And there isn't.
I don't understand going against some country's establishment. If I did, I'd become a brigatist or an anarchist in Italy. But instead I choose to leave the country (ideally and hopefully). So I'm not going to go against some other country's establishment as it wouldn't make sense leaving for that country in the first place. Is that clear?
Freedom of belief... tell that to the Native Americans
Right. So I have to expect to be treated like a Native American? I swear I have no intention of living like them and do what they did. So I should be safe.
One nation, under (the White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant) God
That's my God, too, so it should be bearable. If it's not someone's, they can leave. Oh, I forgot, some people are lazy bums... ;)
I mean, I don't just criticise the oppressing, uncivilized, poverty and ignorance-fueling Catholic God. I also move my arse in order to escape from it.
What was the other argument, women's emancipation? In 1776? ROFLMAO. We still had witches stakes smoking here in Inquisition-ruled European South. And, lo and behold, we still have something wrong in the same part of Europe: the lowest women's activity and job participation rate. Unlike Northern Europe and - guess who - the US.
I don't know if I have an idealized view of the US... but for sure I compare and evaluate FACTS I'm not blind nor deaf to.
@sapph: I have a horrible feeling that bumsby expects to find The L Word in Los Angeles as well.
Meh. Well, as I told her, if she truly doesn't care about the difference between ideals vs reality, so long as she gets what she's looking for, then she truly does have the quintessential American attitudde and will thrive here!
Sheesh... they talk about the whole men/Mars/women/Venus thang; maybe Sapphistos are from Jupiter and Bumsqueaks are from *tape* and *major self restraint here* ummm, Neptune?!
Gah.
*snort*
(god, my job is killing me right now. I know, that's such a mundane comment...)
Well, Mary - I know it's cold comfort, but be thankful that you're swamped because you've been recognized for your abilities.
There's nothing worse than being stuck in a grind, having been allowed to show some small measure of your skill set/impress the hell out of people, only to be shut down again because your insecure, incompetent boss is a jealous control freak.
(LOL, how'd ya like THEM tomatoes?!!)
I say again - gah.
Can't I be NUTS and a freak like the average American? ;) After all you don't know me and I may find out you have the same character I hate in Italians; so that I wouldn't be surprised by some of your comments.
I say it again: until you spend either your twenties or the first part of your working life in a Medieval country, I doubt you'll understand what I say.
I know, I should shut up more often, but in this case I don't because I'm not comfortable with the global hypocrisy currently so fashionable of saying bad things about America while taking advantage of what she does (which is coming from some Americans in the first place, but not only). It reminds me of the radical chics who were against capitalism but sported big cars and hi-tech devices. :P
And I'm all for agreeing to disagree at some point, instead of risking that some of you interpret what I say as personal attacks :P (sapph please, not again... )
In other news, I've never met anyone who likes TLW for the same reasons that I do, so I'd be surprised if Mary's horrible feeling made sense. So Mary if you please / have time / have nothing better to do, explain yourself. Otherwise I'm going to have to disagree right away.
Btw I feel a bit insulted by some of your comments (about how retarded I am that I can't tell reality from fantasy and my being naive). You probably feel insulted by some of my comments as well so perhaps this is a good indication we should not keep discussing the subject. Mind you, I don't mind being insulted, I just wish the discussion could be a little more substantial. But it often happens in politics: people are so convinced that they're right and there's so many arguments to support both theses, that they end up fighting.
(Btw: TLW is a good example of radical-chic, anti-American in words but pro-American in substance, thinking; so yes, in this sense that's what I expect to find in LA)
I apologize for any perceived insult - that wasn't the intent. (And I do mind such things.)
But I actually said you apparently didn't *care* about the difference between the ideals and the reality of America, not that you couldn't tell the difference. I admit, it took me a while to realize that, as you do tend to wax poetic about your favorite country. But I get it (that's why I say you'll do just fine over here). And I didn't say you were naive. (Annoying as hell, maybe, but not naive... ;) Kidding! Mostly.)
I'm interested to know what you would consider a more substantial discussion.
I am interested to continue this discussion if you insist, but I really need to go to sleep now if I want to stay alive after my first day at the gym in 8 months (I work early tomorrow).
Just a reminder now: when you say that is my "ideal" vision of America, don't forget that other than reading as many books about America as I've done about Europe (something which many anti-American Americans lack: a good knowledge of Europe either because they haven't lived there or because they haven't studied about it):
I've worked in the country goddamn it.
You made it sound as I'm a fascinated tourist, but I've been paid a discreet sum of money by an American boss to put up with his American mind. It wasn't even Corporate America formally, but is was so much more American than "Corporate Italy" already.
And now excuse me while I try to stay alive... g'night :P ;)
(Ok one very last thing about TLW and what I expect to find in LA)
I've seen on the US official statistics website that a ridiculous amount of WeHo residents are born abroad. I don't remember exactly - perhaps 40 % - but I do remember it was ridiculous compared to all the others I've seen there.
So... let's just say, I do expect to find many people born abroad in WeHo ;)
(And I let you do the connection with TLW... let's see if you can read my mind ;) Homework: reading Bumsby's mind... LOL)
I actually have better things to do, and no time, so I'll be interested in hearing about your thoughts on Los Angeles once you've experienced it.
But I do think if you're allowed to yank chains--and you do yank chains-- I hope you let us yank back. But please accept my apology if you felt my comment was condescending.
Gotta run. Long long day.
Of course I let you yank back... I said I don't really mind being insulted more than I'm interested in understanding what makes me be so.
And of course the fact that I'm not closing the comments should prove I let ya yanks yank back. (LOL)
And now, please someone grab me from my chair, turn the fuc*ing PC off, and drag me to beeeeeeeed!!!!! *rolls eyes* :P
LOL at yanking chains.
A reminder from me, too: don't forget I spent the first half of my life in Europe, and I've earned money on both sides of the Atlantic. And don't give me that crap about Britain not being part of Europe. ;)
(Cue Spanky saying "Hell no! Britain isn't part of Europe!!" LOL)
You want us to collectively drag you off to bed??!!
*tape*
*tape*
LMAO, you must be tired! Go to bed, Squeaky.
And don't give me that crap about Britain not being part of Europe
I'm sure you can consider it part of Europe for some reason, but what I like about the US applies to a large extent to the UK as well. So yeah, I see this big difference in "relevant" matters between the two sides of the... channel as well.
"I see this big difference in "relevant" matters..."
Of course you do. ;)
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